Is the Fire Dept. Socialism?
At a small rally in October 2015, Sanders was testing-out how to cover his Marxist-socialist tracks:
When you go to your public library, when you call your Fire Department or the Police Department, what do you think you’re calling? These are socialist institutions. —New York Times
As Sanders has known since he joined the youth wing of the Socialist Party in 1961, that’s ridiculous. Ever since Karl Marx invented socialism and wrote the Communist Manifesto (which was mainly about socialism), socialism has meant getting rid of capitalism. Duh. And every capitalist country has fire departments, police departments, and libraries. [See Bernie Sanders’ Lies?]
These are not anti-capitalist institutions. They help capitalism and us too (most of the time). They are good things, but being a good thing is not what makes something socialist. Sanders simply does not want his followers to know what socialism really is — and they don’t.
Here’s one way Bernie makes sure Berniecrats don’t understand.
Berniecrats often text me about local events, so I ask them: Is Bernie a socialist or a democratic socialist? But it turns out they are not allowed to say. Instead, they are required to send me a diversionary answer that’s obviously been pre-approved by Sanders. I’ll discuss that shortly.
To get an honest answer, I knew I had to ask an unexpected question. So I asked Maureen: “Is he a capitalist like Elizabeth Warren?” Bernie didn’t have a rule against answering that question, so she gave me her honest opinion,
I, personally, would say that he is a capitalist. I think he wants to keep an economy mostly based on for-profit corporations.
She had no idea that socialism (democratic or otherwise) was not capitalism — thanks to Bernie’s deceptions.
[ See a similar stunt (Mar. 4, 2020): Sanders Flip-Flops to Obama. ]
How Sanders Hides What Socialism Is
- He claims the fire and police departments are socialist
- He claims Demark and Sweden are socialist
- He implies FDR was a socialist
- He is pleased to have recruited 50,000 Berniecrats to the Democratic Socialist of America, but never lets on that DSA is a Marxist organization.
Some observations: If the police are socialist then so are the military, but not even Sanders would dare say that. “Denmark’s prime minister says Bernie Sanders is wrong to call his country socialist” —Vox, 2015. Denmark’s productive economy is entirely capitalist; they just have a good safety net. FDR called socialism “dangerous” and Norman Thomas the six-time Socialist Party presidential candidate said FDR was carrying out his socialist policies … “in a coffin.”
As to #4, Sanders has been a keynote speaker for DSA, they always support him, and he appointed their Honorary Chairman to the Democrats platform committee. But DSA’s first issue of “Socialist Forum” published 10 of their top people and every one of them wrote a Marxist article. One said: “The Russian Revolution … is a wellspring of political possibility to help guide organizing for revolution in the U.S.” (More on Sanders and the DSA here.)
Why Sanders Hides the Truth
The guy’s brilliant. He’s managed to convince just about everyone from most NY Times reporters and op-ed columnists (even Krugman) down to the lowliest Berniecrat, that he’s a “democratic socialist” but not one of those bad real “socialist.”
That’s like convincing everyone that Bartlett pears are not pears.
He can’t just walk away from socialism for two reasons. First, he was a fire-breathing socialist from 1961 to 1985, called all corporate jobs “semi-slavery,” and opposed the existence of corporations. Walking away would be the biggest flip-flop ever. Second, he’s still a true-believing Marxist socialist. But America doesn’t want that. So his only choice is to pretend “democratic socialism” is something completely different — FDR liberalism — and then pretend he’s been in the Democratic lane all along.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
What the Berniecrat Must Text
As promised, here’s Sanders’ statement that Berniecrats are required to text when asked if Sanders is a socialist or a democratic socialist:
“Bernie has identified as a democratic socialist for decades because he understands that term to mean supporting basic economic rights for all Americans, including universal health care, tuition-free higher education, a living wage, and a secure retirement.”
He forgets to mention that he’s also called himself a plain old “socialist” for even longer and that he still does. And he has never once objected to being called a plain “socialist.”
Sure socialists want things like universal health care that Democrats have long supported (Hillary Clinton worked her heart out to get as close to that as possible in 1992). But to say that democratic socialism “means” just those Democratic goals is to deceptively leave out all the Marxist revolutionary stuff like “class struggle on a massive scale,” to quote DSA again. That’s the socialist part of democratic socialism.
Sanders’ plan is to lead young democrats into Marxist socialism without telling them where they’re going. So far, he’s doing a brilliant job of it.
About the Comments Below:
Several commenters argue that the fire department must be socialist because it is funded by the government. This mistake is made by all far-right-wingers and those on the left without much historical knowledge.
Historically, socialists have defined socialism as an economic system and not claimed that everything funded by the government was socialist. That’s why you never hear a real socialist saying, Oh, the US is becoming more socialist because it’s expanding the government-funded military. That would get you laughed out of any good socialist party.
Both socialism and capitalism are systems, and both require governments to function. They differ in who owns “the means of production” — check out Karl Marx.
The means of production are the factories and service companies that produce society’s goods and services. The means of production does not include the army, police, courts, or fire departments. There are two basic kinds of socialism: government ownership (Bernie’s original position) and worker ownership (his current position). There is basically one kind of capitalism — the capitalists own the means of production.
Both capitalist and socialist economies need legal systems, police, fire departments, highway systems, etc. The capitalists want and need these to serve capitalism, and the socialists need these to serve the socialist part of the economy. The capitalists don’t want the police, legal system, or fire dept. to be left to other capitalists who would rip them off. They prefer to have the gov do those jobs for them by taxing everyone.
Providing the government services that the capitalists want to support capitalism is not socialism according to Marx, and it does not make sense as a way of claiming that the country is part socialist.
Socialism gains a foothold when the government or workers own a company that the capitalists would like to own.
Ripped Apart
And it’s still a type of socialism, no matter how much you try to deflect.
“Denmark’s productive economy is entirely capitalist; they just have a good safety net.”
So-called “safety nets” themselves are socialist. As in our country, where Social Security is socialist, and Medicare and Medicaid are socialist.
No. That’s right-wing hogwash. Those people call everything socialist that is helpful to society, except for the police and the military. That’s because they have not read any Marx — the guy who defined socialism. Real socialists know what socialism is, as do others who have read some history.
So there is this:
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism.” -George (fricken) Orwell
I find it interesting that so many political minded people approach socialism from an authoritative mindset. I’m talking both opponents of socialism and proponents of socialism– both seeking to impose their will and their (usually quite ahistoric) understanding of past and present movements that have flown under the self-described socialist banner. Oftentimes they include movements or individuals that never even used the word themselves- and I’m not particularly against that idea, especially since the word itself had little circulation before Marx; the ideas are old, Biblical old. On Socialism101 claim “in real socialism, there is no money, which is good”, and their rivals claim the same, except that this is bad. Both camps wish Einstein’s “Why socialism?” essay would go away!
Seems like fire departments are close to
Communist institutions. The social service they provide is payed for by everyone in the community and everyone is allowed access to fire protection. The workers also live together and collectively decide how to manage their duties. There is no emphasis on working to maximize a profit nor any fire protection that’s taken away from people that haven’t paid into the service because it’s not a private capitalist insurance company.
Also just because there’s differences/disagreements between Democratic socialists and socialists on the left doesn’t mean the end goal of shifting our economic org away from capitalism is wrong or in bad faith. What’s wrong with Marx? Seems like you’re scared of him
Please read the end of the post above. You are confused.
There’s no such thing as a communist institution. First, you are thinking of socialism — Russia, China etc. tried to be socialist. Communism is the next stage after socialism and no one has tried it.
Communism is an economic system with the ethic — from each according to his ability and to each according to his need. From an ethical point of view, this is perfect. But people will require a great deal of perfecting (they must become angels) before you can build an economy on it. Fire departments don’t work like that. If your ability is too low, they just kick you out (fire you), just like any capitalist company.
The United States also has many volunteer fire stations in rural areas supported by the citizens who actually live there. What’s wrong with marx? The ultimate test for any theory is whether it works in practice. Wherever implemented, Marxism has led to unfreedom, inhumanity, and economic devastation. Modern-day Marxists blame human failure for these shortcomings. According to them, true Marxism has yet to be implemented, as followers past have invariably corrupted the doctrine by adopting quasi-capitalist policies. Rather than reevaluate their position, they refuse to learn the painful lesson that “a key assumption of Marxian economics is false,” as the economist and social theorist Thomas Sowell puts it in his analysis. What did Marx get wrong? In his book More from Less, the MIT scientist Andrew McAfee offers a useful starting point: “[W]hen Marx wrote in 1867’s Das Kapital that ‘as capital accumulates, the situation of the worker, be his payment high or low, must grow worse,’ events were showing just how durably wrong that statement was.” McAfee elaborates: “Perhaps the single most unfair, inaccurate, and ignorant critique of capitalism is that it is bad for the workers who help create it. Karl Marx was confident that workers under capitalism would be trampled and impoverished until they threw off their shackles and embraced communism, but…this is not what happened. Despite its many flaws, the Industrial Era increased the prosperity and quality of life for average people more quickly than ever before.” This trend has continued into the present—“progress in many important areas has sped up in recent decades as capitalism and tech progress have both spread around the world,” writes McAfee. In short, one of Marx’s key predictions, the increasing immiseration of the proletariat under capitalism, has not come true, suggesting a fundamental flaw in his theory. The Labor Theory… Read more »
Read Phillips comment. He’s already proven you wrong. You seem to be leaning in the right direction anyways, you just misunderstand what you’re saying. Fire departments are paid for by taxes on private property. The capitalist system funds everything that government does. The object of socialism is to eliminate capitalism.
See the section above: “About the Comments Below”
It was, theoretically- yet oddly enough it actually was used to topple Monarchy in Finland, Russia, and Germany (1907,1917,1918) in practice; in each case establishing universal voting rights. These were short lived movements.Here was Orwell’s take-
“In my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of socialism as the belief that Russia is a socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused, if not imitated.”
Notice how he says “in my opinion”, like any good enemy of totalitarian and authoritarian thinking should. Nuance like that is great!
The majority of Fire and police department budgets are funded by taxes on private property, fines, market transactions, all based in capitalism. Socialism seeks to end capitalism and private property. End capitalism and private land ownership and you end the tax revenue, which results in reduction or elimination of police, fire and emergency services, and union wages.
there is not one scintilla of an argument against the statement that Fire Departments are socialist – everything you argue is that Bernie is wrong without say why
Fire Dept are funded by taxes – (there are some exceptions) they have a social contract to extinguish everyone’s fire – all houses matter but the ones endangered by fire matter most to fire fighters
Read Phillips comment. He’s already proven you wrong. You seem to be leaning in the right direction anyways, you just misunderstand what you’re saying. Fire departments are paid for by taxes on private property. The capitalist system funds everything that government does. The object of socialism is to eliminate capitalism.
In their incessant propaganda war to move the United States leftwards, leftists often claim that this country already is partly socialist. And they are partially correct. But in their urgency to fool us all, they often stretch their argument to include many institutions that are decidedly not socialist. In the war of ideas, it’s important that those of us who love liberty and oppose socialism actually understand the difference. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who knows socialism better than anyone, often plays this deceptive game. As he recently said: “When you go to your public library, when you call your fire department or the police department, what do you think you’re calling? These are socialist institutions.” Yes, no, no, Bernie. I’ll concede your point about public libraries, but the police and fire departments are most definitely not socialist institutions. Why is a public library socialist, but police and fire departments aren’t? Socialism is about redistribution of wealth. People pay taxes and the government then gives it to others, whether they have contributed toward the cost of the service or not. That’s a library, a public school, food stamps, or any form of “universal basic income.” These are often termed “transfer payments.” The government takes money from individuals and corporations and gives it those it wants to support—or get votes from. This is, of course, completely immoral and antithetical to the principles of a free and just society. In a free society, citizens recognize that certain threats cannot be dealt with by individuals alone. The government’s first and only legitimate role is to safeguard the lives, rights, and property of its citizens. Citizens pay a little bit of tax—which should never be more than 10 percent of income—to fund a military to protect against invaders; police and prisons to capture and incarcerate… Read more »
Not sure how many will read the entirety of your edifying comments but bravo nonetheless.